<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><!-- generator="wordpress/2.2.2" -->
<rss version="2.0" 
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/">
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: More Pin Shooting</title>
	<link>http://www.nrahab.com/2008/04/29/more-pin-shooting-2/</link>
	<description>The taste of bacon is the taste of freedom</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 22:08:37 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.2</generator>

	<item>
		<title>By: formerflyer</title>
		<link>http://www.nrahab.com/2008/04/29/more-pin-shooting-2/#comment-16508</link>
		<author>formerflyer</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 20:42:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.nrahab.com/2008/04/29/more-pin-shooting-2/#comment-16508</guid>
		<description>Mr. Completely makes a great point, one I should have mentioned.  PF only counts when it is deposited ENTIRELY in the pin.  High velocity bullets with high sectional densities can punch through pins with edge hits or damaged pins.  This is made worse by using bullets that don't deform or grab.  Also, the farther you get from the center of the pin, the more likely you are to give a pin a glancing blow and have the bullet fly off with little momentum transfer.  For a while, there was a company marketing "pin grabber" bullets, which were hollow points with serrated edges that were supposed to grab on to a pin even when they hit at a glancing angle.

In the .357, you really want hollow or soft points to avoid the "sailing through" issue.  In auto-loaders, there was constant debate about Truncated Cone vs Round Nose, but when black talons came out lots of folks started using them.  I used to use the Speer 200gr "flying ashcan" hollowpoint in my .45 with good results, and semi-wadcutters with large meplats (Keith style) in my revolvers.

YMMV, and have a ball.  I miss pin shooting a whole lot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Completely makes a great point, one I should have mentioned.  PF only counts when it is deposited ENTIRELY in the pin.  High velocity bullets with high sectional densities can punch through pins with edge hits or damaged pins.  This is made worse by using bullets that don&#8217;t deform or grab.  Also, the farther you get from the center of the pin, the more likely you are to give a pin a glancing blow and have the bullet fly off with little momentum transfer.  For a while, there was a company marketing &#8220;pin grabber&#8221; bullets, which were hollow points with serrated edges that were supposed to grab on to a pin even when they hit at a glancing angle.</p>
<p>In the .357, you really want hollow or soft points to avoid the &#8220;sailing through&#8221; issue.  In auto-loaders, there was constant debate about Truncated Cone vs Round Nose, but when black talons came out lots of folks started using them.  I used to use the Speer 200gr &#8220;flying ashcan&#8221; hollowpoint in my .45 with good results, and semi-wadcutters with large meplats (Keith style) in my revolvers.</p>
<p>YMMV, and have a ball.  I miss pin shooting a whole lot.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mr. Completely</title>
		<link>http://www.nrahab.com/2008/04/29/more-pin-shooting-2/#comment-16477</link>
		<author>Mr. Completely</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 22:50:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.nrahab.com/2008/04/29/more-pin-shooting-2/#comment-16477</guid>
		<description>It sounds like you've got a lot of folks who know a lot about pin shooting! 

Not all clubs follow the same rules, so the rules themselves will have a lot to do with what you need to be successful. Some clubs put the pins 3 feet from the rear of the table, and the pins need a pretty good push to get then off the table. Others set them farther back. 

It is a misconception to equate power factor with successful pin shooting, though, as it is only part of the equation. It's not just the amount of energy delivered to the pin, but how that energy is expended when it hits the pin. For example, a hot .357 with a light and fast bullet will punch a hole through the pin, or even split the pin in half, but leave it on the table. A big heavy blunt bullet with lower velocity and the same power factor will send the pin flying, since it transfers its energy into moving the pin, rather than tearing up the wood. I'd load up the heaviest truncated cone or hollow point bullets you can find and do a little testing. Just barely enough energy to the pin, properly and accurately applied, will usually beat poorly placed shots from a more powerful gun. Although it's a "Speed-Power-Accuracy" event, without good accuracy, the other two don't matter......

                   ...... Mr. C.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It sounds like you&#8217;ve got a lot of folks who know a lot about pin shooting! </p>
<p>Not all clubs follow the same rules, so the rules themselves will have a lot to do with what you need to be successful. Some clubs put the pins 3 feet from the rear of the table, and the pins need a pretty good push to get then off the table. Others set them farther back. </p>
<p>It is a misconception to equate power factor with successful pin shooting, though, as it is only part of the equation. It&#8217;s not just the amount of energy delivered to the pin, but how that energy is expended when it hits the pin. For example, a hot .357 with a light and fast bullet will punch a hole through the pin, or even split the pin in half, but leave it on the table. A big heavy blunt bullet with lower velocity and the same power factor will send the pin flying, since it transfers its energy into moving the pin, rather than tearing up the wood. I&#8217;d load up the heaviest truncated cone or hollow point bullets you can find and do a little testing. Just barely enough energy to the pin, properly and accurately applied, will usually beat poorly placed shots from a more powerful gun. Although it&#8217;s a &#8220;Speed-Power-Accuracy&#8221; event, without good accuracy, the other two don&#8217;t matter&#8230;&#8230;</p>
<p>                   &#8230;&#8230; Mr. C.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Caleb</title>
		<link>http://www.nrahab.com/2008/04/29/more-pin-shooting-2/#comment-16469</link>
		<author>Caleb</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 14:39:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.nrahab.com/2008/04/29/more-pin-shooting-2/#comment-16469</guid>
		<description>You can find a lot of police-trade guns on www.gunbroker.com - local PDs will sell them to gunshops and that sort of thing, who then put them up for sale.  Usually, the guns will have a very low round-count but a lot of holster wear from being carried on a daily basis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can find a lot of police-trade guns on <a href="http://www.gunbroker.com" rel="nofollow">www.gunbroker.com</a> - local PDs will sell them to gunshops and that sort of thing, who then put them up for sale.  Usually, the guns will have a very low round-count but a lot of holster wear from being carried on a daily basis.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: LegendFan</title>
		<link>http://www.nrahab.com/2008/04/29/more-pin-shooting-2/#comment-16463</link>
		<author>LegendFan</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 05:56:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.nrahab.com/2008/04/29/more-pin-shooting-2/#comment-16463</guid>
		<description>I've shot pins several times with my Sig P229 in .40, mostly with red box American Eagle 155 and 165-grain bullets, and finished in the money often enough to cover my entry fees and ammo.  While I am shooting stock class, not pin gun, and and my range hasn't had the world's stiffest competition, I like the .40, and since I carry my 229 more than a little bit, it's nice to be extra comfy with it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve shot pins several times with my Sig P229 in .40, mostly with red box American Eagle 155 and 165-grain bullets, and finished in the money often enough to cover my entry fees and ammo.  While I am shooting stock class, not pin gun, and and my range hasn&#8217;t had the world&#8217;s stiffest competition, I like the .40, and since I carry my 229 more than a little bit, it&#8217;s nice to be extra comfy with it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DJK</title>
		<link>http://www.nrahab.com/2008/04/29/more-pin-shooting-2/#comment-16461</link>
		<author>DJK</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 02:48:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.nrahab.com/2008/04/29/more-pin-shooting-2/#comment-16461</guid>
		<description>How do you get the police trade ins?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How do you get the police trade ins?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Timmeee</title>
		<link>http://www.nrahab.com/2008/04/29/more-pin-shooting-2/#comment-16450</link>
		<author>Timmeee</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 19:49:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.nrahab.com/2008/04/29/more-pin-shooting-2/#comment-16450</guid>
		<description>45 all the way</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>45 all the way</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://www.nrahab.com/2008/04/29/more-pin-shooting-2/#comment-16448</link>
		<author>Bob</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 19:47:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.nrahab.com/2008/04/29/more-pin-shooting-2/#comment-16448</guid>
		<description>Go with the .45acp</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Go with the .45acp</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: jimbob86</title>
		<link>http://www.nrahab.com/2008/04/29/more-pin-shooting-2/#comment-16438</link>
		<author>jimbob86</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:26:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.nrahab.com/2008/04/29/more-pin-shooting-2/#comment-16438</guid>
		<description>My generic pin medicine prescription:  A 1911 stoked with 6.5 g V-n340 behind 230 grain plated bullets (Ranier or Berry's) .....

I'll be trying the 9mm class this year at our local shoots with my carry gun, just for the practice.........</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My generic pin medicine prescription:  A 1911 stoked with 6.5 g V-n340 behind 230 grain plated bullets (Ranier or Berry&#8217;s) &#8230;..</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll be trying the 9mm class this year at our local shoots with my carry gun, just for the practice&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Caleb</title>
		<link>http://www.nrahab.com/2008/04/29/more-pin-shooting-2/#comment-16437</link>
		<author>Caleb</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 11:49:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.nrahab.com/2008/04/29/more-pin-shooting-2/#comment-16437</guid>
		<description>I agree, one of my regular carry guns is a 92D 9mm - the only gun I own with a better out-of-the-box DA trigger is my '37 Brazilian S&#038;W.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree, one of my regular carry guns is a 92D 9mm - the only gun I own with a better out-of-the-box DA trigger is my &#8216;37 Brazilian S&#038;W.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tam</title>
		<link>http://www.nrahab.com/2008/04/29/more-pin-shooting-2/#comment-16436</link>
		<author>Tam</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 11:46:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.nrahab.com/2008/04/29/more-pin-shooting-2/#comment-16436</guid>
		<description>While offering no knowledgeable commentary on pin shooting (I haven't knocked one off a table in over ten years) I'll say that the DAO Berettas are have fantastic DA triggers, especially if you're used to a good S&#38;W DA.

I used a 96D as a bedside companion for years because to my trigger finger it felt just like shooting a 10-shot .40 S&#38;W revolver with a good trigger job.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While offering no knowledgeable commentary on pin shooting (I haven&#8217;t knocked one off a table in over ten years) I&#8217;ll say that the DAO Berettas are have fantastic DA triggers, especially if you&#8217;re used to a good S&amp;W DA.</p>
<p>I used a 96D as a bedside companion for years because to my trigger finger it felt just like shooting a 10-shot .40 S&amp;W revolver with a good trigger job.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
